>>> THE SCENES CONSIDER CHAOTIC.

LAST MONDAY, NEARLY 2,000 PALESTINIANS RELEASED FROM PRISONS AS THE CEASEFIRE SAW THE REMAINING ISRAELI HOSTAGES FINALLY FREED.

WHO ARE THESE PALESTINIANS?

WHY WERE THEY DETAINED?

MICHELLE MARTIN POSES THESE QUESTIONS TO SARAH LEE WITSZAM DIRECTOR OF DAWN, DEMOCRACY FOR THE RAB WORLD NOW.

THIS CONVERSATION DOES CONTAIN CONTENT THAT SOME MAY FIND DISTRESSING.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> I WANTED TO SPEAK TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE A HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER.

YOUR WORK FOCUSED ON THE MIDDLE EAST.

IN THE WAKE OF THE -- I'LL CALL IT A DEAL, THE AGREEMENT TO AT LEAST BRING A CEASEFIRE TO THE GAZA WAR, A LOT OF ATTENTION HAS BEEN FOCUSED ON THE HARROWING TENSIONS THAT ISRAELI HOSTAGES HAVE BEEN LIVING UNDER.

WHAT'S ALSO TAKEN PLACE IS THE PALESTINIANS WHO HAVE BEEN HELD BY THE ISRAELI AUTHORITIES HAVE ALSO BEEN RELEASED.

AT THIS POINT, I THINK IT'S 2,000 PRISONERS HAVE BEEN RELEASED AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE HAS BEEN AS MUCH ATTENTION ON THE CONDITIONS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN LIVING UNDER.

SO THE FIRST THING I WANTED TO ASK YOU IS, WHY WERE THESE PEOPLE DETAINED OR ARRESTED TO BEGIN WITH?

>> SURE.

THERE WAS A MASSIVE UPTICK IN IMPRISONMENT IN PALESTINIANS, PRIMARILY FROM GAZA, BUT ALSO FROM THE WEST BANK IN THE IMMEDIATE WAKE OF THE OCTOBER 7 ATTACKS.

THE NUMBER OF PALESTINIAN DETAINEES HELD IN ISRAELI MILITARY CAMPS OR IN ISRAELI PRISONS, MORE THAN QUINTUPLED.

MANY OF THESE, MOST OF THESE FROM GAZA WERE DETAINED UNDER ISRAEL'S SO-CALLED UNLAWFUL COMBATANTS LAW WHICH ALLOWS IT TO DETAIN PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL ON ALLEGATIONS OF MEMBERSHIP IN TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, BUT MANY ARE ALSO DETAINED UNDER ISRAEL'S ADMINISTRATIVE DETENTION LAW WHICH ALLOWS ISRAEL'S DEFENSE MINISTER OR MILITARY COMMANDERS TO DETAIN ANYONE, TYPICALLY PALESTINIAN OF COURSE, ON THE BASIS THAT THEY POSE A SECURITY RISK ON THE BASIS OF SECRET EVIDENCE THAT CAN BE RENEWED INDEFINITELY IN PERPETUITY WITHOUT THE DETAINEE EVER EVEN KNOWING WHY THEY'RE BEING DETAINED.

>> ABOUT 1,700 OF THE 2,000 PEOPLE WHO WERE RELEASED HAD NEVER BEEN THROUGH ANY KIND OF A PROCESS, A JUDICIAL PROCESS.

IS THAT RIGHT?

>> THAT'S ACCURATE BECAUSE UNDER THE ADMINISTRATIVE DETENTION LAW, NO ONE NEEDS TO BE PROSECUTED OR SENTENCED IN ORDER TO REMAIN IMPRISONED.

THERE ARE CASES OF PALESTINIAN DETAINEES WHO HAVE BEEN HELD FOR OVER A DECADE UNDER SO-CALLED ADMINISTRATIVE DETENTION, ON THE BASIS OF SECRET EVIDENCE THAT THEIR LAWYERS NEVER HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ACTUALLY CHALLENGE, AND IN THE WAKE OF THESE -- THE PAST TWO YEARS DETAINEES HAVE TECHNICALLY HAD THEIR DETENTION RENEWED IN SOME KIND OF A JUDICIAL PROCESS, BUT THAT JUDICIAL PROCESS HAS ENTAILED TYPICALLY A MILITARY JUDGE.

SO A SOLDIER, WHO HAS A VIDEO CALL WITH THE DETAINEE LASTING IN SOME CASES, LESS THAN TWO MINUTES WHERE THE DETENTION IS AUTOMATICALLY RENEWED.

SO THERE'S NO ACTUAL SUBSTANTIVE REVIEW OR OPPORTUNITY TO APPEAL OR OPPORTUNITY TO DEFEND ONESELF FOR THESE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PALESTINIANS WHO ARE DETAINED UNDER ADMINISTRATIVE DETENTION OR UNDER THE COMBATANTS LAW, THE UNLAWFUL COMBATANTS LAW WHICH IS EVEN WORSE BECAUSE UNDER THE UNLAWFUL COMBATANTS LAW, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE DETAINEE TO PROVE THAT THEY ARE NOT A SECURITY THREAT TO ISRAEL EVEN IF THEY DON'T KNOW AND MAY NEVER KNOW THE BASIS ON WHICH THE -- THE SECRET EVIDENCE ON WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN DETAINED.

>> I UNDERSTAND THAT ABOUT 1,700 OF THEM WERE HELD UNDER THESE TERMS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN DESCRIBING.

THIS ADMINISTRATIVE DETENTION.

WHAT ABOUT THE REST?

>> SO 250 TO 300 OF THOSE WHO WERE EXCHANGED AS PART OF THE HOSTAGE DEAL INCLUDE PALESTINIANS WHO WERE CONVICTED BY ISRAELI CRIMINAL COURTS UNDER ISRAELI CRIMINAL LAW FOR VARIOUS OFFENSES.

SOME OF WHOM HAD LIFE SENTENCES AGAINST THEM FOR CRIMES COMMITTED AGAINST ISRAELIS FROM DECADES AGO.

SOME OF WHOM HAD BEEN CONVICTED OF LESSER OFFENSES, A MEMBERSHIP IN HAMAS, A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT OFFENSES.

SOME FROM THE WEST BANK.

I BELIEVE ABOUT 150 OF THOSE WHO WERE RELEASED HAVE BEEN EXILED.

SO NOT ONLY WERE THEY RELEASED, BUT THEY WERE FORCED TO LEAVE PALESTINE COMPLETELY.

>> NO WESTERN JOURNALISTS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ENTER GAZA SINCE ISRAEL'S MILITARY CAMPAIGN BEGAN THERE WHEN WAR BROKE OUT IN OCTOBER OF 2023.

WE ARE NOW RELYING ON ACCOUNTS FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN RELEASED, OF FAMILY MEMBERS, YOU KNOW, ET CETERA.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT WERE THEIR CIRCUMSTANCES, LIKE, WHO ARE THEY?

>> WE KNOW THAT AMONG THE 1,700 RELEASED WERE A HANDFUL OF CHILDREN, SOME WOMEN, A FEW DOZEN OVER THE AGE OF 60, AND SO PRIMARILY A MALE POPULATION DETAINED UNDER ADMINISTRATIVE DETENTION AND RELEASED WITHOUT ANY CHARGE EVER HAVING BEEN BROUGHT AGAINST THEM.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO WERE NEVER CHARGED WITH ANYTHING.

>> BY CHILDREN, YOU MEAN WHAT?

>> THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF A CHILD UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW AND ACTUALLY MOST U.S.

STATES IS 18.

>> 18.

>> SO I DON'T KNOW THE NUMBERS, BUT I DO KNOW THAT THE UNITED NATIONS HAS CLASSIFIED AND REPORTED ON THEM AS CHILDREN.

THEY'RE PROBABLY TEENAGERS.

WE HAVE A CASE OF ONE TEEN WHO DIED IN CUSTODY AMONG THE 80 PALESTINIANS WHO HAVE DIED IN CUSTODY OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS WHICH, YOU KNOW, IS A SHOCKING -- SHOCKING NUMBER, AND THE REPORTS THAT WE'RE SEEING OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE COME OUT AND I IMAGINE PEOPLE ARE SEEING THEM IN THE NEWS, IS OF SEVERE TORTURE, SEVERE ABUSE, SEXUAL VIOLENCE, RAPE, HUMILIATION, DEGRADATION, AND, YOU KNOW, VIRTUALLY VERY LIMITED ACCESS TO MEDICAL CARE.

THE MOST DISTURBING OF COURSE, IS THE RECENT REVELATIONS THAT AMONG THE BODIES OF PALESTINIANS RETURNED, 135 OF THEM SHOW THAT THEY WERE EXECUTED WITH THEIR HANDS TIED BEHIND THEIR BACKS AFTER SUFFERING EXTREME TORTURE, AND THE IMAGES ARE SO GRAPHIC THAT THEY ACTUALLY HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN POSTED ON THE MEDIA, BUT WE HAVE THE JOURNALISTS WHO HAVE SEEN THE IMAGES REPORTING ON THEM.

>> AND FORGIVE ME FOR -- LET'S BE CLEAR FOR A MINUTE.

WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OR THE, WHAT DO WE MEAN?

>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CASES OF RAPE AND SEXUAL ASSAULT IN SOME CASES, USING SOMETHING CALLED A HOT ROD TO PENETRATE THE ORIFICES.

>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MEN AND WOMEN?

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MALES AS WELL AS FEMALES?

>> THE REPORTED CASES WE HAVE OF ACTUAL RAPE ARE MEN, BUT THERE ARE CASES OF SEXUAL ASSAULT AND SEXUAL VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN DETAINEES AS WELL.

THE U.N.

HAS PUT OUT EXTENSIVE REPORTING ON THIS, PHYSICIANS FOR HUMAN RIGHTS IN ISRAEL HAS REPORTED ON THIS, A HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION THAT HAS EXTENSIVELY AND DOCUMENTED AND REPORTED ON THIS.

IT INCLUDES BEATINGS, IT INCLUDES A DENIAL OF MEDICAL CARE.

THERE WAS ONE RECENT CASE OF A YOUNG PALESTINIAN BOY, MAN, I THINK AROUND THE AGE OF 17 OR 18 WHO DIED -- WHO DIED OF MEDICAL NEGLECT AND DAMAGE TO HIS BODY AS A RESULT OF THAT.

ONE PALESTINIAN DETAINEE, ALSO A YOUNG MAN, WAS JUST RELEASED COMPLETELY PARALYZED BECAUSE OF INFECTIONS HE SUFFERED FROM SCABIES INSIDE THE PRISON, ULTIMATELY LEADING TO BLOOD INFECTION AND PARALYSIS OF HIS BODY.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN WARNING ABOUT THE DETERIORATING CONDITIONS IN ISRAELI PRISONS FOR OVER A YEAR NOW.

>> MM-HMM.

>> SINCE THIS MINISTER TOOK OVER THE PRISON SERVICES IN ISRAEL, HE HAS PROUDLY ANNOUNCED THE DRASTIC NEW CONDITIONS THAT HE'S IMPOSED ON PRISONERS, DEPRIVING THEM OF FOOD, DRAMATICALLY LIMITING THEIR INTAKE OF FOOD, LIMITING THEIR ACCESS NOT ONLY TO MEDICAL CARE, BUT EVEN TO WATER, EVEN TO ELECTRICITY, ALLOWING THEM TO SHOWER ONCE A WEEK IN MANY CASES, AND OF COURSE, DRAMATICALLY RESTRICTING THEIR ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE WITH THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS OR EVEN THEIR LAWYERS.

>> LET ME JUMP IN FOR A SECOND AND JUST SAY IN JULY OF 2024, THE MINISTER SAID ON X, THE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM, WHICH IS NOW OWNED BY ELON MUSK, QUOTE, ONE OF THE HIGHEST GOALS I HAVE SET FOR MYSELF IS TO WORSEN THE CONDITIONS OF THE TERRORISTS IN THE PRISONS AND TO REDUCE THEIR RIGHTS TO THE MINIMUM REQUIRED BY LAW.

NOW WE REACHED OUT TO THE ISRAELI PRISON SERVICE FOR COMMENT ABOUT THE CONDITIONS THAT PALESTINIANS ARE BEING HELD IN.

WE HAVE NOT HEARD BACK AS OF THIS MOMENT, AS OF OUR CONVERSATION, BUT THEY DID GIVE A STATEMENT TO THE "WASHINGTON POST" LAST WEEK WHERE THEY SAID, QUOTE, ALL INMATES ARE HELD ACCORDING TO LEGAL PROCEDURES AND THEIR RIGHTS INCLUDING ACCESS TO MEDICAL CARE AND ADEQUATE LIVING CONDITIONS ARE UPHELD BY PROFESSIONALLY TRAINED STAFF.

, UNQUOTE, AND ISRAELIS TOLD "THE ASSOCIATED PRESS," THAT ANY VIOLENCES BY PRISON PERSONNEL ARE INVESTIGATED.

SO I WOULD ASK YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSE TO THOSE COMMENTS.

>> WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THOSE CLAIMS ARE CREDIBLE.

EVEN THE HEAD OF ISRAEL'S INTERNAL SECURITY FORCES ISSUED A PUBLIC LETTER LAMBASTING THE PRISON SERVICES AND THE MINISTER FOR THE VIOLATION OF DETAINEE RIGHTS IN ISRAELI CUSTODY.

THE FACT THAT OVER 80 PALESTINIAN PRISONERS HAVE DIED IN CUSTODY AND THAT FACT THAT ISRAELI COURTS ARE NOW CRIMINALLY INVESTIGATING ISRAELI PRISON OFFICIALS FOR THE DEATHS OF 34 OF THOSE DETAINEES, THE FACT THAT COUNTLESS HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS HAVE DOCUMENTED THE NEAR STARVATION CONDITIONS, WHICH WE CAN SEE WITH OUR OWN EYES WITH SOME OF THE RELEASED PALESTINIANS, AND THEIR GAUNT APPEARANCE DOCUMENTING HOW MUCH WEIGHT THEY'VE LOST, THE FACT THAT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE OF THE RED CROSS HAS BEEN BANNED FROM ACTUALLY MONITORING PRISON CONDITIONS IS YET ANOTHER INDICATION IF ISRAELI PRISON SERVICES DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO HIDE, THEY WOULDN'T BE PROHIBITING EVEN THE ICRC FROM ACCESS.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE MINISTER AND THE ISRAELI PRISON SERVICES HAVE -- I WOULD SAY LITTLE TO ZERO CREDIBILITY IN THEIR CLAIMS WHICH ARE ABUNDANTLY REBUTTED BY THE ACTUAL FACTS.

>> SO AS YOU POINTED OUT, THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF WHICH PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DETAINED ARE NOT NECESSARILY MADE UBLIC.

THE CHARGES ARE NOT MADE PUBLIC, OR THE ALLEGATIONS ARE NOT MADE PUBLIC, BUT DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF THE PEOPLE WHO REMAIN IN DETENTION?

>> SO THE ESTIMATES OF DETAINEES BASICALLY OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS, SO NOT PEOPLE WITH PREEXISTING CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS.

>> MM-HMM.

>> THEY HAVE RANGED FROM 9,500 TO 12,000, AND PART OF THE REASON FOR THE VARIANCE IN THE NUMBER IS THAT THERE ARE HUNDREDS, IF NOT, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE MISSING AND WE DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THEM.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, THE 135 PALESTINIAN BODIES THAT WERE JUST EXCHANGED AS PART OF THE HOSTAGE SWAP HAD NO NAMES ATTACHED TO THEM.

THEY HAD ONLY NUMBERS.

ISRAELIS WHO HAD DETAINED THEM NEVER BOTHERED OR ARE NOT RELEASING THEIR ACTUAL NAMES, AND IT'S REALLY PART OF THE DEHUMANIZATION PROCESS TO REDUCE HUMAN BEINGS TO NUMBERS.

>> OF THE PEOPLE WHO REMAIN IN DETENTION, DO YOU HAVE ANY VISIBILITY INTO WHO THEY ARE, WHAT CHARGES THERE MAY BE AGAINST THEM OR UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES THEY WERE DETAINED?

>> OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN DETAINED, LET'S JUST SAY IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, SINCE THE OCTOBER 7 ATTACK IN ISRAEL, THERE ARE -- THERE HAVE BEEN CRIMINAL CHARGES BROUGHT UNDER ISRAELI CRIMINAL LAW AGAINST APPROXIMATELY 300 PEOPLE.

I BELIEVE THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO WERE CAPTURED, YOU KNOW, WHILE COMMITTING THE -- THE CRIMES AND THE MURDERS ON OCTOBER 7, BUT THOSE ARE THE CASES IN WHICH THERE ARE ACTUAL CRIMINAL CHARGES.

SO FOR THE OTHER THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DETAINEES, THEY'RE HELD UNDER TWO DIFFERENT LAWS.

ONE IS THE ADMINISTRATIVE DETENTION LAW, AND ONE IS THE ILLEGAL -- OR UNLAWFUL COMBATANTS LAW.

>> FIRST, I WOULD SAY ISRAELI OFFICIALS SAY THAT THESE DETENTIONS ARE MEANT TO PROTECT AGAINST VERY REAL AND CREDIBLE SECURITY THREATS AND THEY POINT TO OCTOBER 7th AS AN EXAMPLE OF THAT, LIKE, HOW WOULD YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK EVERY TIME ANYONE IS DETAINED ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, IT IS TO PREVENT FURTHER HARM.

IT'S BECAUSE THE PERSON IS DEEMED TO BE A SECURITY RISK, NOT JUST TO PUNISH THEM, BUT TO PREVENT THEM FROM COMMITTING FUTURE CRIMES.

THAT IS THE WHOLE MODEL OF INCARCERATION, BUT THERE ARE GLOBAL RULES THAT APPLY TO EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD INCLUDING ISRAEL.

ISRAEL IS NOT ABOVE THE LAW THAT APPLIES TO THE UNITED STATES OR TO CHINA OR TO RUSSIA WITH RESPECT TO HOW DETAINEES MAY BE THREATED, WITH RESPECT TO THEIR ABILITY TO HAVE ACCESS TO FOOD, WATER, MEDICAL CARE, ACCESS TO A LAWYER, A RIGHT TO CONNECT WITH THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS, AND THESE ARE ALL RULES THAT ARE ENSHRINED VERY CLEARLY IN INTERNATIONAL LAW, AND THAT ISRAEL HAS BEEN NEGLECTING FOR A VERY LONG TIME, BUT THAT, YOU KNOW, COMPLETELY ABANDONED IN THE PAST TWO YEARS.

I WOULD SAY FURTHERMORE THAT THE NOTION OF HAVING A RIGHT TO A JUDICIAL PROCESS, THE RIGHT TO HAVING EVIDENCE AGAINST YOU HEARD IN A COURT OF LAW, THE RIGHT TO HAVING AN INDEPENDENT JUDGE DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S A BAYS SIS FOR YOUR DETENTION, THOSE ARE ALSO GLOBALLY RECOGNIZED INTERNATIONAL LAWS, GLOBALLY RECOGNIZED HUMAN RIGHTS THAT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT HAS COMPLETELY IGNORED BECAUSE IT HAS FOR DECADES, IMPRISONED PALESTINIANS WITHOUT GIVING THEM ANY REAL OPPORTUNITY TO CHALLENGE THEIR DETENTION ON THE BASIS OF SECRET EVIDENCE THAT THEY CAN NEVER EVEN KNOW AND A PROCEDURE THAT ALLOWS THEM TO BE DETAINED FOREVER IN PERPETUITY ON THE BASIS OF THIS SECRET EVIDENCE.

>> THERE ARE SOME WHO WILL HEAR THIS CONVERSATION AND WILL SAY THAT THAT'S UNFORTUNATE.

THAT'S EVEN CRUEL.

IT'S POSSIBLY WRONG, BUT IT'S ROUGH JUSTICE IN A WAY BECAUSE HAMAS ATTACKED ISRAEL ON OCTOBER 7th.

WOMEN, BABIES, YOU KNOW, CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, KIDNAPPED, PEOPLE WERE HELD IN BRUTAL CONDITIONS.

PEOPLE WERE KILLED IN -- UNDER THESE BRUTAL CONDITIONS.

PEOPLE WERE STARVED, YOU KNOW, THE ISRAELI HOSTAGES WERE STARVED, AND HAMAS DID NOT CONFORM TO ANY STANDARDS OF -- OF INTERNATIONAL LAW OR HUMAN RIGHTS.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO SOMEONE WHO HAS THAT POINT OF VIEW?

>> WELL, I WOULD SAY THAT THE INTERNATIONAL RULES THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE WHICH MOST COUNTRIES HAVE ADOPTED AS THEIR OWN LAWS SUCH AS THE CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE, THEY ARE DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY TO ADDRESS CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THE CITIZENRY OF A NATION HAS BEEN WRONGED, WHERE THEY HAVE SUFFERED CRIMES.

THERE'S NOTHING UNIQUE ABOUT ISRAEL'S EXPERIENCE IN SUFFERING A TERRIBLE ATTACK ON CIVILIANS, A TERRORIST ATTACK ON CIVILIANS JUST AS I DON'T THINK YOU CAN PROBABLY POINT TO MANY COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD THAT HAVEN'T EXPERIENCED HORRIBLE CRIMES AGAINST THEIR CITIZENS.

THE POINT OF INTERNATIONAL LAW IS THAT IT IS THE LAW, AND IT IS WHAT IS GOING TO DISTINGUISH LAW-ABIDING NATIONS, LAW-ABIDING GOVERNMENTS, FROM LAWLESS GOVERNMENTS BECAUSE IF THE GOVERNMENTS ACT AS BRUTALLY AND VICIOUSLY AS THE PEOPLE THEY ARE PURPORTING TO FIGHT AGAINST, IT'S REALLY JUST A RACE TO THE BOTTOM, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE RESPONSE OF ISRAEL TO THE ATTACKS ON OCTOBER 7, I THINK ANYONE WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO SAY THAT HAMAS' ATTACK AND THE HORRIBLE MURDERS THEY COMMITTED THERE WERE SOMEHOW WORSE THAN THE EXPONENTIALLY MORE MASSIVE AND INDISCRIMINATE AND WIDE SCALE DESTRUCTION OF PALESTINIAN LIVES WHICH HAS NOW EXCEEDED OVER 60,000, AND I'M SURE WE'LL DISCOVER IT EXCEEDS MUCH MORE THAN THAT.

>> THE ARGUMENT HERE -- THIS ISN'T, LIKE, A CONTEST OF ATROCITIES HERE.

>> NO.

>> IS THE ISSUE HERE THAT ISRAEL AS A NATION STATE, AS A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY OF NATIONS SHOULD BE HELD TO THE SAME STANDARD AS OTHER NATION STATES?

IS THAT THE CORE OF THE ARGUMENT?

>> I THINK IT'S ABSOLUTELY THE CORE OF THE ARGUMENT, BUT THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT HOLDING ISRAEL TO THE SAME STANDARDS OF INTERNATIONAL LAW.

IT'S ABOUT RECOGNIZING AND STARTING WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT ISRAEL'S OCCUPATION OF PALESTINIAN TERRITORY IS UNLAWFUL, AND THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE AND U.N.

GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAVE ORDERED ISRAEL TO END ITS OCCUPATION, TO WITHDRAW ITS FORCES AND WITHDRAW ITS SETTLERS FROM OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES.

OCCUPATION -- ILLEGAL OCCUPATION, PARTHEID RULE, THESE ARE ALSO CRIMES.

IT'S NOT ABOUT JUST, LET'S JUST MEET THE STANDARDS OF THE REST OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

IT'S ABOUT RIGHTLY FOCUSING ON THE SEVERE ISRAELI CRIMES THAT INTERNATIONAL COURTS OF JUSTICE HAVE ORDERED BE BROUGHT TO AN END.

>> SARAH LEAH WHITSON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

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